TOK, Immortal Snails, Lobsters, and Raviolis

After finally submitting my TOK essay and kissing the (infernal? fun? rewarding?) subject goodbye, I realized that I wanted to finish off my experience with a conversation with the four TOK teachers. Enjoy as Georgia and I ask each teacher questions about TOK, philosophy, and random hypotheticals. Special thanks to each teacher (especially Dr. Crowe Morey and Mr. Lockey for actually teaching Georgia and me!) for answering all our questions with sincerity, mirth, and thought. Onwards!

The following are transcriptions of the four interviews. They have been edited for clarity and conciseness.

Dr. Crowe Morey:

Rebecca: My first question is, do you have any favourite objects or topics ever used for an exhibition or essay?

Dr. Crowe Morey: Anything that’s controversial in the news. So, getting students to see that these things matter and that it’s interesting to see why. It doesn't have to be just politics, but, you know, something that could significantly have an impact on what we’re learning and studying. It shows what could happen in the future for them, but it also just kind of shows that they're being critical. Not skeptical, but critical.

Rebecca: Very fair. Okay. Is a Pop-Tart a ravioli, a sandwich, or a calzone?

Dr. Crowe Morey: I'm sorry, is it a calzone?

Rebecca: Yeah, is it a ravioli, sandwich, or a calzone?

Dr. Crowe Morey: Oh. And what is it again? A Pop-Tart? A Pop-Tart is junk that is simply empty calories that serves no purpose but food marketing. It's an awful food. So, I would call it, well, there should be a different category. I question your categories! Okay, sure. Pop-Tart. I don't know. It's just sugar.

Rebecca: Okay, next question then. The great philosopher Uncle Ben said with great power comes great responsibility. If with great power comes great responsibility, is it unethical to avoid gaining power just to escape?

Dr. Crowe Morey: Is it unethical? It’s an easy way out. So, I don't consider it unethical. I don't see the criterion for that. But I do think it is a cop-out of avoidance. It's kind of like, you know, digging your head in the sand and ignoring what's going on when you have the power to help direct it in a more positive light.

Rebecca: In the opposite way, if you can gain power and use it responsibly, do you think you are obligated to do so?

Dr. Crowe Morey: I think the obligation comes from within yourself. I don't feel like it's a societal sort of impingement. Like we ask students, but we don't say shame if you don't do it, right? An education is trying to expose you to those things that matter. And also to, to kind of give you the way to say, hey, this is a possible solution and all of the other great things that go along like teamwork and how to communicate your message.

Mr. Lockey:

Rebecca: Why do you think there's value in TOK? The so-called real-life applications, where do you see them?

Mr. Lockey: What is the value of TOK? TOK is really about critical thinking. It requires students to make applications to the knowledge that they're making in their classes, but also go beyond just saying this is information or this is knowledge that's being taught to you, but say, okay, how does that actually work in the real world? And what is the value of that in the real world? It's not just how we solve problems, but it's what is the quality of those solutions. How do we know anything? Why do we know it? Is it relevant? Or where is it most relevant? Is it reliable? How do we evaluate the knowledge that we know? And especially in an age of cynicism and skepticism, what qualifies as good knowledge and why? Looking for that real evidential connection. And then asking these more robust questions about how and why it applies rather than just how we do something.

Rebecca: Okay, next question. If tomatoes are fruit, is ketchup a smoothie?

Mr. Lockey: That's a great question. I do not know the answer to that question.

Rebecca: That's fine. Anyway, next question. You and a super-intelligent snail both get one million dollars and you both become immortal, but you'll die if the snail touches you. It always knows where you are and is slowly crawling towards you. What is your plan?

Mr. Lockey: I would invest my million dollars in super speed technology and satellite tracking so that I can both stay away very quickly from the snail and also always know where it is located.

Rebecca: Okay, but the snail is also super intelligent, so it probably knows what this technology is. So what's your plan there?

Mr. Lockey: Uh. Touch the snail and just get it over with.

Rebecca: Really? Touching the snail to get over it is a possibility for you here? So, both of you are immortal in this situation. At what point do you decide to just touch the snail? Like, immediately after you're in this situation? Or, like, one thousand years later?

Mr. Lockey: That's a great question. When I tire of trying to be worried about where the snail is. He's still super slow, right?

Rebecca: Well, yeah, but he's super intelligent.

Mr. Lockey: So, he could also get super speed?

Rebecca: Well, you don't know that.

Mr. Lockey: He's a supervillain?

Rebecca: I mean, it says, it always knows where you are and slowly crawls toward you. So, I suppose, yes, its life mission is to slowly crawl towards you. It also has a million dollars.

Mr. Lockey: Yeah. A million dollars is not that much in this world.

Rebecca: Cool, that was interesting. What is the one sentence of advice you would give to TOK students? Prospective, current, or past, or even non-TOK/IB students.

Mr. Lockey: Think lots and do your homework when assigned.

Ms. Mugan:

Rebecca: The first question is, why do you choose to teach TOK?

Ms. Mugan: Why do I choose to teach TOK? Because I think with TOK, it’s a privilege to be able to meet a very diverse group of students with very diverse backgrounds and subjects, and so on. I can have an experience of perspectives. But I think most of all it is an opportunity for me to keep myself reflectively questioning things. I’m learning most when I'm teaching TOK. So, for me, teaching TOK is an opportunity to be a learner while sharpening my own critical thinking skills while I'm guiding students through that journey.

Rebecca: Second question. Is cereal a soup?

Ms. Mugan: Um, well, that's interesting. It's almost like a moral dilemma. No, I would say no, based on a particular set of criteria of what makes soup, soup. Even though there are cold soups out there, gazpacho being one of them. Warmth and heat are not necessarily a characteristic of what makes a soup, soup. But I believe that it depends on the context in which you're making it or eating it. It depends on the rituals around cereal and soup. Not every culture eats cereal in the way that I believe you're referring to here. And soup, I think, is cross-cultural. Universal, like eating food like broths and things, cooking together, in times of a lack of resources or not. Soup is a go-to, while cereal is a little treat that we invented with technology that is a bit different. So, no, not soup.

Georgia: Okay. Now we have a little situation for you to put your mind in. Oh no! A trolley is heading towards 1 or 5 people but you’re blindfolded and have no idea who or what is on the tracks. Do you pull the lever and hope for the best, or leave it to fate? You don't know any attributes about any of the people.

Ms. Mugan: Whoa, that's another moral dilemma. You guys are putting me in the line here. Um, I would probably pull. For me personally, the chance of saving is more appealing than leaving it to someone else's control. Ooh, I might be a little control freak.

Georgia: What is one tip in one sentence that you would give to TOK students?

Ms. Mugan: Be open-minded and open your heart to the possibilities of being challenged in your established values, truths, beliefs, or even routines.

Mr. Pavan:

 Georgia: Are there any insights or things that you would say about TOK to non-IB students?

Mr. Pavan: Oh my days. That's a great question. I would say that it is a mythical beast, TOK. And you know, insights for non-IB students, it’s to go beyond factual information. Like, we’re not learning equations or historical dates or anything along those lines. It's more conceptual and looks at how we know things and why we know things, right? So, I guess that would be my insight to non-IB students. Focus more conceptually and not on the cold hard facts.

Georgia: Is a hot dog a sandwich?

Mr. Pavan: Oh my days, a hot dog is not a sandwich, no.

Rebecca: Can you explain that? Any rationale?

Mr. Pavan: Okay, so, I don't think a hot dog is a sandwich by any means. Because it's its own entity. Like, if you went to somebody's house and they offered you a sandwich and you said yes, and they brought you out a hot dog, would you not be disappointed with what you were delivered because you were expecting a sandwich? Hot dogs don't fit that scope of the term. I get how people could argue it: “Oh it's an open-faced sandwich,” “It's still meat between two pieces of bread that has condiments and has toppings,” but I harshly disagree with that.

Rebecca: Sure. Perfect. Third question. Oh no! A trolley is heading towards 5 lobsters. You can pull the lever to divert it to the other track, running over a cat instead. What do you do?

Mr. Pavan: Oh my gosh. This is a crazy question. Who are you gonna save? I'm gonna kill the five lobsters guys. I think. Is there a way that I can kill neither?

Rebecca: No, you have to kill one or the other.

Mr. Pavan: Okay. I'm killing the five lobsters. The train's hitting the five lobsters because I think a cat has much more personality and is just more cognizant and can live a better life than those five lobsters. I also think that depending on where this train track is, those lobsters could be plucked for dinner at any point in time. Right? Perhaps in letting the lobsters die, we are feeding a family. And in saving the cat, we're giving a poor young soul a companion. Sure. I'm also allergic to cats. If that has any weight, I decided to save a cat, even though I'm allergic to it.

Georgia: You're so brave.

Mr. Pavan: And I also don't eat seafood. Little tidbits, you know.

Rebecca: Okay, last question. What is one tip you would give TOK students? Prospective, current, and past. My requirement is that it is one sentence.

Mr. Pavan: Open your mind to TOK in your personal life, it can have a really positive impact.

Thanks once again to all four TOK teachers for agreeing to our interview and good luck to all IB1s in TOK!